that's an important thing because it makes it so much harder for investigators. both in robert mueller's special counsel's office, and also in the senate and the house which are also doing their own investigations for us to get to know what exactly happened in those interactions. >> we have done, evan, several of freedom of information requests to various government agencies including the secret service asking if there are tapes, and tell our viewers, i think all came back in recent days and said they have no -- no recording devices there. >> they have no recording devices. that's what they came back. it wasn't a surprise, per se, because everybody seemed to be completely flummoxed when the president raised this issue in the first place with his tweets. it wasn't a shocker that they tweeted, the secret service had no record of it, none of the other agencies could say they had anything like this. if there was some kind of recording, it would have personally perhaps been made by the president using his phone or perhaps some kind of tape device