own thoughts about that. he's the author of "deep undercover" as well. first of all, thank you for being here. what's your takeaway, what occurred to you based on this meeting from both sides? >> i think this could have been predict predicted. the two players were not evenly matched. >> is that because -- because president putin, at the end of the day he was a spy, he is an adroit politician and president trump prides himself on being an unconventional politician. is that part of it? >> take the spy thing out of the picture. he's being described i guess as the accomplished spy master. that's part of the myth that he's built up about himself, you know, his -- his position as a spy, you know, by the way, was in east germany, not too far away where i grew up. i work with people like him. he was -- i actually met one of his ex- bosses who lives here in