that's run-of-the-mill things that happen in a campaign, that's just not the case. you don't regularly get foreign governments, hostile gordforeig governments, trying to give information like this to campaigns so there's a whole lot of holes there. >> mary catherine, everyone we've talked with who's familiar with campaigns says taking a meeting with someone representing a foreign adversary, the e-mail chain said this was a russian government lawyer donald trump jr. would be meeting with, that is not standard practice. beyond that, don junior has since said he would have done things differently in retrospect. the president isn't even going so far as to say that. >> i think you can maybe make the argument this is unprecedented but it's not standard practice and even if you put aside -- even if you don't think it's mind blowingly bad judgment, which is what it seems like to me, what they have been saying all along, what the trump white house has been saying, trump family, trump campaign, is that meetings of this type did not exist, and