collusion conspiracy thing, i think is an important thing for all the players the who are in the orbit of this investigation. >> right. well, that's also something that the talking point neglects. the idea of saying, this went back a long way, renato, so obviously it has nothing to do with the campaign. that is a naive assumption. because the theory of the case is, well, they made relationships during that time. how did those relationships come to bear? and that's why i go back to rick gates. because the trump team kept him around after manafort left, which, you know, politically, is now going to look like an even more suspect decision. he stayed in the campaign. he stayed with a central role. he was in the inaugural committee. and then when he did leave, he went into a lobbying firm that was still very connected to the white house. is it relevant if he stayed in contact with the wlohite house? if he's visited the white house? >> well, if they are transmitting information, sure. >> what does that mean, renato,