more influence when traditionally presidents have not had that and they have separated -- >> may i answer? that there has been a policy that was put in place. it's a policy, not constitution or a requirement in the law, that the white house does not work with the department of justice, except by checking with their counsel. the white house counsel. >> and way do you think that was put there? >> can i finish? >> why do you think that was put there? >> it doesn't matter. >> policy doesn't come from nothing. the policy was put there so we could avoid what's hag right now. >> do you sit around and just figure out ways to defend anything the -- >> this is called the constitution. >> even when it doesn't make sense? it seems like, no matter what, if i say the president is supposed to have five toes, you would say, no! no! this president has six toes. >> i've never seen his feet. >> this president has six toes, because that's the new way it's done and no one has ever said that a person is supposed to have -- it seems like you make up these joupt landish reasons