rampantly. and poaching and other activities that were supposed to be reduced because of the money going into conservation are not happening. what we're actually seeing in some of those countries is the amount of poaching is either increasing or staying the same. you're not seeing the money that is being paid for purposes of the hunts actually going to conserve the species. >> mr. glass, we'll give you the final word and respond to this notion. for a lot of people who see trophy this sunday, it's not going to be facts. it's going to be about feelings. and the idea that if these are such a precious resource and you don't need them for food anymore, why would we ever kill them? what do you say to those people? >> before hunting became popula in south africa in the '50s it was a -- in 2016 the iucm stated