alienating european public opinion to the extent that it's not going to be as easy to cooperate with the united states in the future. >> here's the irony. president trump's attacks on the existing order may well lead europeans to work more closely together. it may foster greater european unity. of course, the brexit debacle undermines that. but you're certainly seeing a concerted attempt by the european elites that you refer to, to work together. equally, there is a scenario where you get more of the hungary, poland, italy situation, chipping away at european unity. and we know the costs in europe when europeans are divided. that vision of a europe united whole and free is under siege, and i think it's fair to say, as never before. >> is president trump viewed in europe as negatively as, you know, some of the elite media portray him, or is it fair to say that for the populous in europe, maybe he is the role model? >> i think that you've got to be