we've seen in the country in recent history -- god forbid it changes -- >> i have an explanation for it. >> the reason it isn't is he does not expand the tent. he doesn't reach out. he doesn't try to make people better or sweeter. he plays to anger and hostility, and that is going to keep him small. >> well, i think he could do a better job reaching out to the middle. i agree with you on some of these issues like immigration and things like that. i think there have been some dark angels in the administration pushing policies that i think are not in keeping and consistent with the populism that donald trump enunciated in the campaign. >> populism doesn't have to be angry by the way. >> but, look, you know, this is a president that's come in. i remember watching networks, more so msnbc than cnn, but the day he was inaugurated, the days around that time, they were calling for his impeachment then. they haven't given him a moment to breathe. there's a major investigation under way by robert mueller. he is being probed.