interviewed certainly by the special counsel's team, even if they're not before the grand jury, but if they're interviewed by federal agents, then they have exposure on false statements. so there's a lot of exposure at that lower level. but if we're talking about the overall big investigation and major exposure both legally and of course politically if it turns out they were involved in this conspiracy in some way, that's the big, significant change. >> asha, just in terms of the phone calls that donald trump jr. made to the blocked phone number before and after the trump tower meeting, we don't know who was on the other line. if that was in fact donald trump on the other end of the line, would that be something that mueller's investigators would be able to find out? >> yes. they can subpoena those phone records and be able to see where those -- to whom those calls were being made, and that could corroborate the timing, for example, of michael cohen's account. and just to complement what carrie just said, from the intelligence standpoint,