extravagant way. >> the -- >> remember, the government doesn't just give out immunity. you can't walk in and say i'm potentially guilty of a crime, i want immunity. they had to make proffers and the lawyer says here's what we know and would say and why we want immunity. the government already probably has some of this information or some sense. >> not just related to michael cohen. >> it might have been. that's a very important point you're making, you have to show the government you have something worthwhile before they'll give you immunity. it's a big deal to give immunity to someone because you are potentially avoiding prosecution of serious crimes. the fact they gave him immunity suggests that pecker has something serious they need. >> the interview the president gave which aired this morning, in which he talked about, first of all, the campaign finance violations of michael cohen, they weren't really campaign