i think that judge kavanagh should be able to respond to that. i think that's appropriate. by the way, doesn't mean it has to be done publicly. they could decide -- look, i understand the transparency issue, but if dr. ford wanted to do it privately, i think she would have the right to do that. there's no question -- >> they have. i get the sensitivities. she has the threats. she's got kids. her family is not living at home right now. i totally get that. >> sure. >> for the full complement of senators to make an assessment for the rest of us to have any confidence in what happens there, especially given the poison politics of this confirmation process, i think it is going to have to be open. >> you said something important there, chris, that is for the senate to have its role. i think what's getting overlooked, you haven't done this, others have, overlooking the senate's role here. this is a situation where the united states senate is vested with the advice and consent role. >> right. >> that means they can have the hearing. they can vote yes or vote no. they determine veracity and they determine process. that is the appropriate venue