now, is there an appropriate way to attack this or does one go at it from an angle? >> if you were a coward you would go from the corner. >> well, i'm a manley man. >> so you go in the middle. >> all right. >> for somebody who does what i do, write about chefs for people who are chefs, tony was as cool as they came. it was that classic line, everybody wants to be him. he was a cool guy. he could write. he was natural on television, a chef swagger. that's -- i mean, that started in some ways with tony. or he epitomized that. confident, smart, super computer brain that could spit out these incredible witty things. but he would go to these places, and he would evidence, i think, an incredible humility. he was genuinely curious. he wasn't trying to teach them. he wasn't trying to show off. >> how long does that broth have to simmer to get good? >> an hour. >> wow, really? i would have guessed like 14 hours.