staff, mick mulvaney. here's what he said about this in 2015. >> the fence is an easy thing to sell politically. it's an easy thing for someone who doesn't follow the issue very closely to say, oh, well that will solve everything. build the fence. the fence doesn't solve the problem. to just say build the darn fence and have that be the end of an immigration discussion is absurd and almost childish for someone running to president to take that simplistic of view. and the bottom line is the fence doesn't stop anybody who really wants to get across. you go under. you go around. you go through it. >> how long can he last? i mean he gets a big amen, but that's the opposite of what the president says. boy, i wonder if mick mulvaney will back away from that now. please, mick, don't back away. don't do it. jobs doesn't matter that much. just hours away from the third shutdown in one year. this hasn't happened in decades. it's not even over a critical issue. the wall is not border security. we're not a wall away, okay? the only way you get safer is if