w. bush and barack obama. that really set the standard for relationships, conversations between an outgoing administration and and i coming. there always were obviously presidential transition processes before that, john, but honestly, the first post nooirn transition in 2009 set a different standard on how the outgoing and incoming administrations have regular contact with each other. and work very closely with each other. so there is a seamless transition on day one. >> so we've heard there on many different subjects but people associated with donald trump many of them not professional politicians. they didn't have a lot of experience in government. is that enough of an excuse here? maybe ignorance? they didn't know better. >> well, listen, it may be an explanation, but i wouldn't say it's an excuse.