point, succinctly. i mean, we know what michael says. >> it no. jeff, were you going to say something? >> what makes this complicated legally is there's this sort of paradox of silence. >> right. >> i understood what trump wanted me to do, but that's how we communicated. he didn't have to tell me to lie. i knew to lie. that may be true, and that's certainly the way certain crime organizations work. and testimony about that kind of relationship has been very successful in mafia prosecutions. but whether people will believe that that's how the person who is now the president of the united states interacted with his staff, that's a question i don't know the answer to, but it is certainly raised by the evidence here. >> although, it's interesting, jeff, it you listen to that tape that michael cohen made of his client, donald trump when they were talking about david pecker, setting up a fund, the language they were both using was very kind of elliptical. i mean, michael cohen, you know, i'm paraphrasing, he was like,