you know, ken, i don't have to tell you this, they don't have a bill. they just have some principles. >> then why are we talking about it? because this is the first -- this is the first administration that i can remember to put forward a coherent alternative to the current legal immigration system -- >> that's not true. there was a senate bill that was passed under the obama administration. >> i didn't interrupt you. you should shake your head. i didn't interrupt you. i'm just going to keep talking. >> it isn't true but go ahead. >> the fact of the matter is barack obama did nothing but talk about this and use it as a divisive issue. >> that's not true. >> just like criminal justice reform. >> you don't think president trump uses it as a divisive issue -- hold on, i don't want to talk about anything else. >> he's put a substantive proposal on the table and he's going to take fire from both sides for it. >> his senior officials said it is light on details, it's just operative principle. it's not a plan. it's not a bill. he doesn't know how to do it. here's my concern with it. i'm fine with him putting something forward. i'm fine with him having the debate. >> if you really believe that,