african-american, first major party nominee in 2012. you see this, a ten-point shift, but we also see this, down here. whites without a college degree. this was a huge shift. mitt romney won them in 2012, but look at this. donald trump in 2016, this is a huge, huge shift. this is a nine-point shift. and this is what drove -- this is working class joe. this is what he's trying to sell in pennsylvania, that he can get some of those back, at least keep that margin down. >> what do the numbers tell us about democrats in pennsylvania? >> so i think that this is -- this -- i went back and i looked at this. u.s. election, it's a great website. every democrat to win the presidency since 1960 has won pennsylvania, but it's even more than that. pennsylvania was more democratic than the nation as a whole from 1952 to 2012. that was not the case in 2016, where donald trump won the state by about a percentage point, despite losing nationally by about two percentage points. >> that's fascinating. the question is, has pennsylvania fundamentally changed for good, or are those people still there waiting to be