from all kinds of sources i have in the intelligence communities and in russia. saying, wow, wow, did he eat your lunch. how big a deal was that, and why? >> well, i was hearing a lot about it from the nato allies who were really spun up. so, yeah, it was a big deal, and it was a sign of somebody who wasn't prepared for that meeting and didn't know what he was walking into. you know, chris, i am a little tired of this notion of putin the negotiator who is omnipotent. he loves to play games, but all negotiators love to play games. russians are pretty good at it. but i think that it's not necessary to consider him some kind of negotiating god that you can't handle because i think joe biden can. >> so what does that look like? when he sits down and putin says to him, hey, i don't have anything to do with your elections. this is all hype from your media. and ransomeware, i don't know who is doing what any more than you know what people in the united states who don't work for you. what's his line? >> this is the hybrid methods