we ran a local access network, educational network. we republican a radio station through that same network. we went to the town people in the direct and through cable network so we did video production on a large scale, not as big as here but it was a lot of fun and it drew in a lot of children that loved technology so technology, today, includes video production on computer software and ed sitting -- ed sitting boards and cable wiring and lighting issues. he was involved in all of that. >>neil: was he good at it? >>guest: he was good at it. he was encouraged to come up to the high school through a program that was put in place where we would go to the middle