lot of people for bureaucracy are acting like a separate branch of government because they have civil protections to make it difficult for the president and the cabinet to fire them. >> jon: whatever the guy at the top says, the epa secretary in this case, he's going to need people under him to actually implement the policies he is calling for. so if epa employees are in any way resistant to change or a new direction, we could be in for a long fight. >> you could peer the former epa administrator kristian todd whitten said this is setting things up for a bloodbath inside the epa. i think that doesn't sound like that is what could be happening. epa employees, they can do their jobs if they are asked to do anything unlawful or unethical, they should not, but if they are simply trying to undermine a new administration because they disagree with the policies, they should not be doing that. they should be resigning in protest. that is the option they have. but the idea they are simply