and you're trying to put them through school. if you got a decent pension. let's look at what happened to pensions since the deregulation of the financi community. how many billions were lost in the savings & loan scandal? how many billions were lost in enron, worldcom, tyco. and how many trillions of dollars of pension value were lost in this recent wall street economic meltdown? let's look at who really caused the problem, not at the people who are the victims of that problem. this is scapegoating at its worst. >> this governor walker in wisconsin, and that remarkable quote, what about that push to kind of portray union workers as the new welfare queens living large while real americans are facing tough times out there? >> i guess what he is saying is that everybody ought to live in the poverty level. because what he is saying is if there are people living above the poverty level because they have a union, shame on them. they ought to come down to the level of whatever he calls the have-nots. we've got members in wisconsin. none of our members have gotten rich working at harley-davidson,