he's ever met, likable, terrific time with him. >> and likable. and yet -- and yet you put a camera on him, and the guy freezes -- >> not all the time. >> no, he was stiff and awkward a lot. everybody, you know, everybody on the left was calling him an idiot and saying that he was too dumb to be president. of course they said the same thing about eisenhower. that's what you say about republicans, i guess. but some people are just not good when the camera light's on. >> by the way, then you're not good for that job, it's a huge part of that job. >> that's fine. but to say he's -- to say he's ill-equipped as i said about barack obama in '08. he's ill-equipped to be president at this point, maybe rick perry's ill-equipped to be president, but maybe he'll grow into it. >> all i know of him is what i have seen on the tube. he doesn't seem incredibly, incredibly bright to me, i'm sorry. he might be a very, very nice man. more importantly, joe, i'm sorry, mika. >> oh, my gosh.