windsor. i think it's very hard to see how any one of the five majority justices would decide this case differently. on the other hand, i think it's hard to figure out for sure that you can get any one of the four. >> always a pleasure. we bring in the panel now. we've got the republican governor of arkansas asa hutchinson. i went through the states' rights argument on this front. do you believe -- you're an attorney i believe. do you believe there is a line you can draw between saying the federal question is states have to recognize versus the question of whether states have to authorize? >> i thought your arguments were persuasive in the previous discussion. i think there is a way the court can do that. if you look at the windsor case that was spoken of, it was not just how gays were treated that was part of the decision, but