period, that rivalry that got set up, all the attention? >> it was all these things coming together. obviously the idea of who would succeed johnny carson was a huge thing. but then when david letterman who was expected to get it for 11 years and didn't get it, then it became this whole almost shakespearean aspect to it. like the royalty that the kingdom had turned over. >> the royal succession. >> these two guys had such interconnected lives. dave learned how to do stand-up watching jay. jay learned to do tv watching dave. he became dave's favorite guest. >> jay was on all the time. >> all the time. they had this interconnection and that was part of it. also, it was a network taking on "the tonight show" really taking it on. a network never succeeded doing that before. >> what happens is it succeeds in a ratings standpoint this in the beginning -- >> it succeeded but it was number one -- >> and then jay moves ahead. >> right. >> it's really interesting to listen to letterman now. >> yeah, well, it's always