record of some involvement in crime. on the other hand the club itself usually takes precautions to distance itself as an organization from crime, so the way i would put it is you have a group of people who many of whom have a proclivity in that collection, a strong proclivity in some cases, but at the same time you have a club or organization that takes the line that we just heard. >> so what is there -- what do they do what's their reason to enter these clubs, what do they hope to gain from being in these clubs? >> camaraderie, excitement and networking. these clubs, there's a lot of adrenaline. they are very often in a -- they are pretty much always in a constant war state. they have enemies all over the world, and they watch them
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