be judge gorsuch. what's your view -- first of all, just big picture as to whether this is a surprising nomination, whether this is a provocative nomination, what do you think? >> i don't think it's that provocative when you compare him to the other two candidates whose names were rooted about. so if you compare him to a pryor or hardiman. but what we have to compare him to is merrick garland. i don't want that to be lost. so we had a supreme court back in the beginning that was very fragile. but let's remember chief justice marshall was careful about husbanding the credibility of the court because it was a weak institution. people used to leave all the time to become state court justices or diplomats, something that would be unthinkable today because it's the most prestigious position -- >> the first chief justice left to be a governor. you would never imagine that happening now.