banging was about, what that meeting was about and why it mattered so much to rudy to get out that list? i don't know the words. >> what was the head banging? >> i don't know if it works. >> i think the issue the trump legal team runs into is the president's legal exposure is so complex. there is obstruction. there is collusion. there is a question about whether to do an interview. and these are things that if you're going to go out and speak publicly about them, you really need to be well versed in. you need to know all the facts about them. and i think they run into trouble when they run into subjects that they don't necessarily know as well as others. these are not simple investigations. they have complex legal, you know, questions around them and about the facts. and when the homework is not done, it doesn't come out right. >> i bang my head, too. really quick. >> the point mike is making is right. they don't know everything. in fact, they don't know a lot. and so they're learning it probably a little bit ahead of