that no, actually he's morally elevated or a spiritually enlightened individual? >> well, you know, it's kind of both and for a lot of folks. there is some really interesting theological gymnastics that's been going on in terms of what people have been able to talk themselves into. you hear a lot about people saying, well, if you look through the bible there are many instances of god using somebody of less than sterling moral character for his own purposes. and so they're very open about saying look, donald trump is not somebody i would expect to sit next to me in the pew at church but he's going to put people on the court, justice jeffress says he's going to do what we want in terms a pro life agenda and so we're happy with him. and then there are other folks who reportedly, i've heard this, do believe that they are going to be the ones to lead donald trump to christ and that by being close to him they're going to be able to kind of land this white whale. >> we don't have time to put it up but one of the most amazing spiritual exchanges between david brody, i noted earlier, and donald trump on his golf course when he asked him what he thinks of god and trump goes into a long revery about how it's great he owns the golf course without a mortgage. i guess the sort of question to me is from a policy perspective is it really the course -- jason zangerly who has a great piece in the "new york times" magazine, says it's just about the sheer efficacy and sort of ambition and ruthlessness with really in the >> i poli but political >> thanks for having me. political proximity. >> that's really interesting amy sullivan, thanks for joining us i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me.