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former president trump's rivals, they are very reluctant to take him on. i mean, even ron desantis, the governor in florida, i mean, for the most part, standing and saying, you know what? this is not fair or this is grievance or this is a politically inspired act. you just look at the reaction that you talking to stef about the television coverage. you think about it. it's the former president who could be the president again. and it's sex, and it's porn stash. it's hard to say that the audience should be blamed for being oh my gosh, this is riveting. >> bret: we got some foreign news in the show. we got some other news on the show, ben. >> but, juan, again, even if -- even if bragg runs the tactical, even if he gets everything that he wants out of this case, at the end of the day, the president can still run i can still win and be back in the white house and none of this is going to achieve that. if this was the apex and nay