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jim's the father and ron's the son. jim watkins bought this website, 8kun — 8chan, and then became 8kun — and his son was a sort of computer programmer. and we think that, in the latter months and years of qanon, they were the ones who were controlling it. and certainly, in the course of researching my podcast, there was evidence that we uncovered, and other people uncovered, that people in the trump orbit, in the run—up to the 2020 election campaign, had been in touch with the watkinses in order to try and harness the power of this crazy conspiracy theory to help get donald trump elected. irene? yeah, yeah, definitely. i agree, that's the main theory, and all the evidence points towards the watkinses, mostly because, as i mentioned, the short code, there is evidence showing that it was edited manually to match q's original short