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to say people still in prison for their beliefs religious or otherwise, persecuted for how they look or worship or as he put it it, who they love. the interesting thing about any son mandela, are he never looked for approval or wanted approval. he said what he thought and sometimes that might have offended people in the united states. certainly some political leaders. he was no fan of the iraq war. for example. do you think that his dream particularly when it comes to south africa but also on the broader world stage has legs, if you like? >> oh, absolutely. and one of the things that was interestinging about president obama's speech today was he lifted nelson mandela into a pantheon of three great moral leaders of the 20th century. one is ghandi and martin luther king and now nelson mandela. and he spoke of them together as sort of moral giants. i thought that was quite striking. what he was trying to do was to universalize the messages that they brought.