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people in my business don't want to touch the stuff. it's too sensitive. >> what does that mean? >> what i'm saying is it takes a galvanizing event for people to say, do we want to talk about american liberties and how we collect on people like a kid in phoenix, arizona, when he is using u.s. information on u.s. soil and a u.s. person? people in my business are saying be very careful about treading on this territory, because you are will get in trouble as soon as you touch a u.s. person. >> even though he did have a criminal record, convicted, did he didn't get sentenced to jail on probation. >> he wasn't convicted of the terror-related kram. edd crime. the charge was not terror. it was lying to the fbi. he got three years probation. the judge threw out the terror-related charge. it ended in 2014. that's it. he paid his debt to society. nothing new had come up. >> didn't he lie about wanting to go serve -- >> he did. that's what started the investigation.