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massive collection of private data by corporations by former governments and so really americans every day consent to a lot of their data being collected by all of these different sources. so there's a privacy issue here that never seems to get addressed and then the second issue is at what stage are these bulk collected data programs relevant and my contention would be that it's really relevant most of all after an initial attack and at what point do you want the government fully equipped to know whether there's a follow-on attack and track where terrorists are going and communicating. >> after the attack and not before. i ask you this because the man in charge of president's review of nsa is richard clarke. he served under president clinton and george w. bush. he says the nsa's bulk collection is not netting terrorists. shouldn't he know? >> well he should know more than he talks about. in reality, he wouldn't know