other ways and it's not that. but she says absolutely not speaking exclusively to kyung lah on this show and here is what she said. >> senator sanders says that that is impossible to achieve without a middle class tax hike. >> i'm not prepared to engage in a middle class tax hike. the rules have been written against middle class and working families for far too long and it's not necessary they be taxed more. >> what do you say to kamala hair zblies what i say to her is the average american family is saving $3,000 a year in total health care expenditures. you know, erin if you paid 200 for the electric bill andky provide it if for 150 and am i taxing you 150 when you saved you $50. >> you say the tax increase is less than the savings? >> absolutely. 100%. >> cash to cash. >> absolutely. and the reason for that is that we're wringing out in fraud and waste and abuse that is driven by the fact that you have a health care financing system we're not talking about -- this