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kind of people who flew a plane into the world trade center. >> though he is -- he was accused of selling arms to al-qaeda and taliban, not in the one you convicted him for but in the past. i mean that's what part of his record is. >> that's his record, but that was never a crime against the united states, and i'm not so sure about the way you're right about al-qaeda. there were other groups he certainly sold to, many countries in africa, both sides of civil war. the point is he really didn't care who his customer was. he was selling arms to whoever would buy those arms, and that's different from somebody who has an ideology. >> but he's still a bad guy. >> for sure. >> and he's still a dangerous guy. >> is he still a dangerous guy? >> good question. i'm interested to hear you think he was retired because earlier we had on the former u.n. trafficking expert. she is the woman who is credited to getting viktor bout arrested. she just talked on cnn to erin burnett. here's what she said.