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>> the former president and his team have not been shy to go public with a number of things before this, so that's an interesting point. geffen the evidence we've heard that the special counsel has on the former president, do you think this might be a hail mary move on the part of his team? >> i think maybe it's more like asking for a typically meeting that defense lawyers often take with doj, in the guise of something they wanted to sound more sinister, like doj was doing something wrong. i'm not surprised they want to go in to make a pitch for why donald trump should not be indicted, but it sounded almost like the charges weren't conceding, instead they say we're complaining about misconduct, and probably in the end they had a more typically meeting than they were leading the public to believe.