interdependent with everybody. i was listening to the previous segment with gillian. and clearly we're interdependent. so when our deficit is a real problem, so is everybody else's. and i've been traveling a lot -- surprise -- and basically a lot of people will say it's your fault. it's your fault what's gone on. so we have to deal with that. >> it's america's fault? >> well, that's what they say. i don't happen to believe it. but i do think that our deficit and the whole debt issue and the inability to deal with it is a national security issue. >> and we're not being any more responsible here than they are across in europe. but greece in particular, do you think greece -- are they going to do the right thing? are they going to bite the bullet, move forward with this austerity program? >> hard to say. a couple days ago, the "washington post" had an editorial with the best opening line i've seen in ages. since they sent a horse to troy, there has never been a surprise