the way out. >> we need serious debt restructuring, in u.s. and europe. in the u.s., we have mortgage debt that needs to be restructured. but we can't do those because we have these zombie banks that are so week that if we did the restructuring, they would fall apart. they would collapse. >> so yalman, if i take the premise that we have zombie banks. i'm sure we have lots of them, not as many as we had two years ago. we have them in europe -- >> you can't even tell sometimes. >> you can't tell. but is the alternative to allow these banks to fail -- i mean, obviously the alternative is to allow them to fail. the policy is that there would be too much pain in letting banks fail. >> the reason they're always kept alive is the contagion fear, that you let one fail, like what happened in the case of lehman, there were so many other problems, the credit crunch, et cetera. but especially now, we have in the u.s. and in europe, they do