say based on what they know about chris christie, they say what they know about the nature of his political operation, they just find it hard to believe, in some cases extreme incredulity that this operation could have been done. forget a culture, it's more like the operation of how it would work. you do this kind of thing in most places, you do that kind of thing, you want credit for it. you don't keep it to yourself if you're going to do it. >> you know what i get the feeling, it's always like when people say they feel sorry for the watergate people, all the ones who went down. their lives were ruined. i always say i got a worse one, they got away with it. if they had gotten away from it we have had a deviancy decline in the federal government that was historic. do you believe that the bergen record had not broken this story yesterday and kelly -- kelly -- what's her name, bridget kelly's behavior here and the e-mail hadn't gotten out, do you think some time from months from now when this thing cooled down and