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lasting damage to our political system. the president has every right to discuss ideas and strategies with his closest advisers. the president, whether that president is democratic or republican, should feel unrestrained to bring ideas to his closest staff for robust discussion. >> for robust discussion. joining us now is former democratic congress woman, running for senate in iowa in 2022. that was, that was -- you know, there are times i was saying to the team producing the show, that there's times in the past when you look at chuck grassley who see him as an elder statesman, midwestern in a way but normal. to show unrestrained robust discussion, that was not what donald trump was doing when he was talking to rosen and donohue. it was telling them to say that the election was corrupt.