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bill clinton. >> yes! >> we have gotten a lot over the years for the boxes are briefs question. but it was a lot more than that. and all of our political and social programming throughout the decade and on into 2000s -- >> okay. but just think about the facts now -- what has replaced that? is it tiktok? it's social media. young people are engaged on platforms that have no standards. >> they are fragmented. i mean, the thing about mtv it was like the world of -- four teenagers, in that it actually got everybody watching one platform in a unified way. today, the audience is totally fragmented. >> -- and they should all just come to msnbc? >> we need the hosts on 48, and so i remember when john or -- came out -- >> kurt loader -- >> i knew something big had happened. >> i will say, stephanie -- i think -- and i'm saying how do you think with me leading, but that -- at the end of 2008. and i would say around, 2015 or so, you could just feel --