I would love to talk i will talk about it. Theyre not taking away my First Amendment rights. Donald trump claiming earlier this week that no one is going to stop him from speaking about his criminal case. Today, judge Tanya Chutkan laid down the law and told trumps lawyer that trumps words will have consequences. And the First Amendment is not absolute. Plus, attorney general Merrick Garland appoints a Special Counsel to investigate hunter biden . And republicans are predictably complaining about it after spending months demanding exactly that. And good evening, everyone. Happy friday. Tonight was a big night for donald trump, who discovered that after all, at least to the criminal Justice System, he is no different from anyone else. Despite his fame and political prominence, he cant just publicly abuse witnesses because hes on the campaign trail. The judge who taught him that lesson today is named Tanya Chutkan. I have a bunch more to say on her in a bit, but we begin the reidout tonight with something along those same lines. And it is the truism that sometimes things are not as they seem. Even when they involve Hollywood Stars and former president s. For example, today in hollywood, actors and writers continue to walk the picket lines, still unable to reach an agreement with the studios and producers like netflix. A reminder that while our perception is that hollywood is this glamorous place where all the actors and writers are fabulously rich, for the vast majority of them, that isnt true at all. Artifice is a big part of hollywood. Making you believe things that arent real. The same is often true in politics. The Washington Post reports this week that tommy tuberville, the alabama senator currently holding up all u. S. Military promotions due to his opposition to abortion, including leaving the army and marines leaderless, and whose obstruction appears to have cost alabama the headquarters of Space Command which will now remain in colorado, reportedly doesnt even live in alabama. The senator angtually lives in florida. His wife has a Florida Real Estate license even and he hasnt actually lived in the state he represents for years. They even included a link to this video in which tuberville says after retiring as a Football Coach, he moved to florida. But tuberville got elected to the senate not because he was a good politician or had great idea. He got elected because he was a famous Football Coach who used to coach at Auburn University in alabama. So alabama republicans gleefully replaced actual civil rights hero and one term democrat, senator doug jones with tuberville. Because it just sounded right to them, right . Auburn coach becomes alabama senator. And if his voters dont like the fact he doesnt actually live there, well, theyre out of luck until 2026 when hes up for reelection. Tuberville, of course, is not the only interesting Character Living in florida. Roger stone, the proud boys, michael flynn, and of course, donald trump lived there, too. Trump moved to florida after he became president after building a career in new york that convinced most people that he was a successful real estate billionaire. So powerful was that myth that he landed the apprentice, which turned him into a celebrity. And then he became president of the United States, same formula as how tuberville became a senator. And i just dont think that people think enough about how much the artifice that got him here is why it is so hard for people who Support Trump and even some who dont really to believe that he committed crimes. Even when the evidence says that he absolutely totally did. People enjoy believing in hollywood mythology and worshiping the Rich And Famous. It is endemic to american culture. Remember the show, lifestyles of the Rich And Famous . It was a huge hit, just like the apprentice was. And for a lot of people who look up to trump as a rich celebrity they idolize, its just easier to believe that he wouldnt commit crimes because he wouldnt have to. Hes just being set up by his enemies. And while the actual facts say no, joe biden did Beat Celebrity president donald trump, the idea that trump really won just seems more believable to a lot of fellow americans. The famous guy winning just makes more sense to them. And trump has used that perception of himself to grow his support into something more than fandom, hes used his celebrity to grow himself a religious cult. And hes using his superfans ardent support to try to build a wall around himself, that he hopes will keep him out of prison. Because all he needs is one superfan on his juries to throw the governments case against him. All he needs is one friendly judge, hey, florida. He just needs one juror who believes that all celebrities are rich and rich celebrities dont commit crimes. But what if america in next years election once again chooses the real politician over the celebrity . I mean, it is likely to happen. A poll round up by political strategist Simon Rosenberg shows a consistent three to four point lead for biden. Its an outcome that could trigger a replay of 2020 all over again. If trump goads his supporters with the big lie 2. 0. We also have to consider the flip side, what if he wins . Lets just entertain this frightening hypothetical for a moment, that its november 2024, and trump is declared the winner of the election. Nightmare scenario, i know. But what if democrats, democrats in key states, object to certifying his electors . Based on the 14th Amendment. Its a question two constitutional scholars tackled for more than a year, and then they spoke to the New York Times. These are conservative scholars, i should add, who are active members of the Federalist Society. The conservative legal group and proponents of originalism, the method of interpretation that seeks to determine the constitutions original meaning. One of those professors, william body, summarized their conclusion saying, quote, donald trump cannot be president. Cannot run for president. Cannot become president , cannot hold office, unless twothirds of congress decides to grant him amnesty for his conduct on january 6th. This is based on a little known provision of the 14th Amendment which bars people who have engaged in an insurrection from Holding Government office. The intent was to prevent the president from allowing former leaders of the confederacy to regain power within the u. S. Government. Congress can remove the prohibition, the provision says, but only by a twothirds vote in each house. Now, of course, these findings dont change the fact that Trump Supporters are determined to elect him again. But they will boost, they will help boost these lawsuits that could be filed arguing that trump is indeed ineligible to be president. Professor Michael Stokes paulson, the second scholar, said, quote, there are many ways that this could become a lawsuit. Presenting a vital constitutional issue that potentially the Supreme Court would want to hear and decide. Joining me now is laurence tribe, who has taught Constitutional Law at Harvard Law School for five decades. Great to see you, Professor Tribe. Im officially obsessed with this scholarship by these Federalist Society judges that i dont normally say that. Whats fascinating about it is what theyre saying is that it is unquestionably fair to say that donald trump, this is what theyre saying, engaged in the january 6th insurrection through both his actions and inaction. Therefore, they say that under the 14th Amendments article three, he cannot be even in some cases added to the ballot to be president of the United States. And people can sue over that and make that claim. What do you make of their argument . Well, i think that theres a great deal to be said for it. You dont have to be an originalist, somebody who thinks that the constitutions meaning has to be excavated from the history and what people understood it meant at the time. In this case, its simply the straight up language, 14th Amendment section 3 says that anybody who takes an oath to uphold the constitution and thereafter engages in or gives aid and comfort to an insurrection cannot hold any office under the United States, period. Now, back in i think it was spring of last year, judge michael luting, a distinguished conservative and i, both wrote that we thought those words meant exactly what they said. A lot of people have said, oh, no. You have to take them in light of an 1869 decision rendered by Chief Justice chase in a case called enray griffin. These two scholars do a terrific job of shredding that Circuit Court opinion by one Supreme Court justice. So what is left . Whats left is a kind of practical argument, some people say that provision cant be selfexecuting. It cant just rise up Out Of The Ashes and grab politicians and say, sorry, you were an insurrectionist, you cant run. There has to be implementing legislation under section 5 of the 14th Amendment. But theres nothing in there that suggests that you need new legislation, and anyway, all 50 states have laws called laws where you can ask by what warrant do you hold this office. And the only modern decision applying this language used that law or something just like it in new mexico to say that a County Commissioner who had actually taken part in the insurrection though he hadnt been convicted of any insurrection crime, only of trespass, couldnt hold his office. Now, an Appeals Court never ruled on that because the case became moot. He lost an election. But i would imagine that whenever donald trump tries to run in any particular jurisdiction, the Secretary Of State of that jurisdiction, whether on the basis of this article or little more obviously on the basis of this little pamphlet, the constitution of the United States, just read it and say wait a minute, you cant run. Now, he will say, i was never convicted of insurrection. I was only convicted in the District Of Columbia under the indictment brought under other laws by jack smith. Im assuming perhaps he will have been convicted before the election. But it is clear, you dont have to be convicted of insurrection in order to be disqualified. Now, when Michael Stokes paulson says i think the u. S. Supreme court is going to be eager to rule on this, i beg to differ. I dont know about that. You know, they could easily duck. Lower courts could say as a matter of real politic, were not going to take this old language. We may be originalists when it comes to other things, but you know, here were going to find a way out. So im not sure whats going to happen, but it is clearly a major issue overhanging any possible trump presidency. And i think its going to be a Major Political issue going forward. You know, the thing is, whats fascinating is that there have already been two cases that have been brought. Lawsuits against Madison Cawthorn and Marjorie Taylor greene on this exact basis in North Carolina and georgia. In Marjorie Taylor greenes case, she escaped in with a victory. But in cawthorns case, it got further but it was made moot because he lost. Heres whats so odd about this whole world we live in now. If this went to the Supreme Court, sitting on that court is Clarence Thomas who seems to be as chris hayes said so brilliantly last night, a kept man by very rich rightwing interests and whose wife is also an insurrectionist. She was in touch with eastman, she was sending emails trying to get the insurrection going. The Supreme Court would be in its most awkward position ever if Clarence Thomas had to be one of the people ruling on whether donald trump was equal to his wife. Pretty awkward. I mean, it really does suggest that the only way out of this forest is right through the trees. For the electorate of the United States to decide we do not want this chaos. We dont want this wouldbe dictator who tried to hold on to power even though he had lost the election. We dont want him in office because once hes there, its only his Life Expectancy that will ever lead him to leave. And if he is defeated, yes, he might try again to find some way of grabbing on to power, but theres a big difference. This time, hes not going to be Commander In Chief of the military. Hes not going to have the Secret Service trying to hold him in power. Hes going to be an outsider trying to get in. And i dont think thats going to work. But we can expect chaos, and hes certainly trying in this trial to win through chaos. Hes basically saying, you tell me that i cant name the witnesses, that i cant indirectly scare them . Just watch me. And judge chutkan is pretty serious. She said no, you watch me. The more you try to make a carnival out of this, and the more you violate my rules which are standard rules about not being able to disclose sensitive material like witness transcripts, the faster im going to get this trial going. Im going to take your right to speedy trial even more seriously. And that puts him in quite a bind, as he wants to win in the court of public opinion. He hopes to get that one juror that will despite the fact that he doesnt really have any obvious defenses, legal or factual, that will just say, i dont think this celebrity could possibly be guilty. I think hes probably realistic enough to know thats less likely to happen. What he really wants is to delay, delay, delay. He may succeed doing that in florida but not in the District Of Columbia with judge chutkan. Not at all, and in georgia, if hes convicted, as i recently found out, he cannot be pardoned automatically by the governor. Its a commissioner, so even kemp couldnt save him. Laurence tribe, its been a treat. Thank you so much. Always great to talk with you. You have set us up perfectly for our next segment. Up next on the reidout, the no nonsense judge we wr talking about in trumps january 6th case warns him about what he can and cannot say as Professor Tribe was saying, without landing himself in even hotter water. As the doj prepares to turn over 11 million pages of evidence. The reidout continues after this. Im jayson. Im living with hiv and im on cabenuva. It helps keep me undetectable. For adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, longacting Hiv Treatment you can get every other month. Cabenuva is two injections, given by my Healthcare Provider, every other month. Its really nice not to have to rush home and take a daily hiv pill. Dont receive cabenuva if youre allergic to its ingredients or if you taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. Serious side effects include allergic reactions postinjection reactions, Liver Problems, and depression. If you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. 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