the u.k. political talk show sports. i'm afshin rattansi welcome to going underground through inside the indian high commission in london on a special day for the world's largest democracy with me is india's current high commissioner to britain thanks so much i commissioner for inviting us in to this building what does it mean this day 70 years since it became a republic that's right and before i say anything is thank you so much often for coming here and give us this opportunity to speak to you through you do your audience it is a very special day for us it's the 71st republic the 70 years of our republic. india became independent in 1947 august 15th 947 and we adopted our constitution on 26th of january 1050 and it is this constitution that we celebrate it is this formation of our republic a free independent republic democratic. is one tangle itself from britain well it's not as it was august of 1947 and january of 1950 and during this period there were a lot of discussions you know it's a written constitution it's a long document so it took it was adopted on on 26 january 950 understand you had to meet the home secretary pretty patel here in britain over security in this building after it was vandalize back in september are you confident you're safe in the building well. building was vandalized on 2 asians last year on. our independence day celebrations were going on on 15th of august. that that day there was a very violent protest which caused damage to building a number of indian british indians including elderly people women young children including a. couple of them i think in prams were stuck between hostile crowds and we had to make a lot of effort to rescue them and get them into the building so and then after it was repeated again after a few days on the 3rd of september so when we heard reports of. similar or similar efforts being made. for republic day of india this year. immediately of course thought of our experience of last year and also last year on the republic day of a flag was burned so we didn't want to take any chances and that is why we. raised i'm really grateful to the home secretary that she gave me the opportunity to raise this with her. i must say that we also discussed a number of other issues because in the u.k. relations are extremely important on multiple facets and so it was an opportunity to discuss a lot of other things as well get on to breaks the trade deals and is in a 2nd if i may but presumably these protesters are not protesting in the is in the becoming a republic they are protesting indian policy in kashmir. that certainly have you presumably and i am not very short of what exactly the protesters in this country. because they come from a certain segment of the population and i'm not exactly sure. what it is that they want to protest because india is a democracy india is a vibrant bench or in functioning democracy we have a parliament which is very active we have every institution off a democracy by that it is free media that it is human rights institutions that are on the most at the state or at the national level we have people who are. very conscious and proud of our democratic culture and tradition so. there are there is you know elected governments in india they change after. elections peacefully for the last so many years so i really don't see what people come here to protest about you see you say that democracy. but in this week which also happens to be the 70th anniversary of the russian liberation of auschwitz the pakistani prime minister imran khan called your country. basically came to the nazis i don't think that. such kind of corman's should be to dignify it with a response because this certainly completely unrelated to facts i think the democratic record of india. is unquestionable and is absolutely sterling compared to of course i don't think there is even a comparison to pakistan so i really don't wish to comment on the statements that may have been made and i haven't seen all his statements about democracy in kashmir because your counterpart here in london the commissioner told us. just the other week or so that india is lying about mass graves that kashmir has been under siege hundreds are being killed in extrajudicial executions and of course this is the longest period of time a democracy has a new internet well you know firstly to start with i don't think i want to dignify the vile the league ations made by anybody. so i wouldn't go into those details you would deny and. i definitely i don't even know where he gave mass killings. and you know. the allegations that he makes on what basis he's making them but you know there as being a certain change in jammu and kashmir. that is completely done and matter of india it is starting i suppose he's referring in some way to the changes that were made to indian const to the indian constitution. in purely temporary provision of the constitution of india was amended or. changed by the parliament of india and this change was made with the objective to give better governance and better rights to the people of jammu and kashmir and dark and because jammu and kashmir and of course india as well have been at the receiving end of cross border terrorism for 40 years with 40000 people having innocent people having lost their lives to terrorism. there were also credible inputs to indicate that they were they were going to be attempts made of a similar nature. so certain law and order mccann isms had to be put in place to secure the lives and safety of the people now these measures have been progressively you know released or changed over the balance and. normal life is you know almost everything is there all essential supplies all essential services are working that has never been any shortage of food or medicine. landline telephone even internet is working in fully in the dark and selectively in. meat and progressive why selective value is obvious as well because like a standardized any connection to terrorism your superpower breaks patna china rejects absolutely that what injuries done is within the. within the legal framework framework adopted at the united nations as regards the position of kashmir. again i think the 2 questions are kind of mixed up so to come to what india has you know the step that india took it is completely an internal matter of india and this is completely unrelated to the resolutions passed by the un security council to start with the resolution the 1st resolution that we that was passed was passed in 1988 that is before the constitution of india was adopted and the change that was made by the government of india by the parliament of india. i was made to a provision of the indian constitution which is part $21.00 of the constitution which is by itself is a temporary provisions and so this was a temporary position a provision that was changed by the government of india so it has really nothing to do with when i think of as a bilateral issue or of india the issue of jammu and kashmir can be called a bilateral issue because pakistan is actually in occupation of part of the state of jammu and kashmir. which is what actually took india to the security council a lot of people don't realize that it was india that took this matter to the security council asking the un to get pakistan to vacate its aggression so this resolution was passed 1st went to that and 1st actually the 1st provision of that after the establishing of ceasefire was asking pakistan to be kate its troops and to make the best endeavor to remove the tribesmen and people normally not resident in ok that was that was a un resolution so that is that is completely different from this this provision provided for certain special status through german kashmir by changing that what it means is that now for instance to give you an example. judgments passed by the supreme court of india or laws passed by the parliament of india can be applicable automatically to jammu and kashmir as well for instance women in gym caver not allowed to inherit property if they married someone from outside of of jammu and kashmir outside of kashmir now that for not be the case so similarly the rights of n.c.b. dequeue you know the economically or socially deprived people that the laws that may have been passed by the parliament or judgments made by the supreme court of india would now be automatically applicable to german funny you mention the supreme court given that i mean already won straight carolers what the indian government is doing is illegal and in fact the indian government only has a couple of weeks 4 weeks to respond i think you have moved to another. shall i wish i think but let me say this in response to your question that as a functioning vibrant and mature democracy people have a right to question anything that the government may do and if well shutting the internet well if they publish the media has no access to be able to verify your claim you know over the last several months i have read so many stories that are you know claiming to be originated out of kashmir out of jammu and kashmir that i do not know what i mean i sometimes wonder what the complaint is about a complaint is about yes there has been you know. on the internet and that is because of our experience over the years of the internet being misused by behave as a propaganda battle it's not just about propaganda it is used for. you know operations of which. which. impinge on this if the security and life of the common people and so therefore this is a mechanism this is a measure that is taken by the law and on a thought if these based on dead assessment off the situation i cannot stop you there more from the commissioner of india after this break. operations understand that the cost of doing business is buying and building support in washington d.c. and that includes staffing up with former members of congress put them on your payroll you want to hire a chief of staff from a powerful senator or a committee. member get their chief of staff put them on your payroll as a lobbyist this is what washington does on a bipartisan basis in fact i think it's the only point of true bipartisanship in d.c. is corporate influence over government. welcome back i'm still with the high commissioner of india to london ok i mean i do want to get on to british ties in a way from this controversy but i have to raise the national register of citizens act $2000000.00 indians report to be at risk of deportation because they're muslim values i think there is a lot of propaganda on this issue of the government and the prime minister himself have clarified multiple times that there is no the indians it doesn't was to me you know who is going to be affected by by any measures that the government is taking at the moment the national register of citizens is actually not yet even pas by parliament that is what has been got a fight also by the prime minister and by the ministers and in any case for anybody who is aggrieved about anything the access to the independent judiciary is available so venom after it is before the supreme court it remains sub judice and it is really not appropriate for me to go into the details of of the rightness or wrongness of it suffice it to say that people in a democracy have means available to them to question even their own government and if people in india go to the supreme court they are simply exercising that right ok well that commissioner of course of august on your got about rejects a lot of what you just said there but as to being high commissioner here in britain . it's all very well of course india being caught about as an economic superpower what's it like being high commissioner here. in britain i mean there are always a very rich diaspora in the. yes and there are disproportionately poor. aspirants in this country what do you make of make of it here well it's a it's a really exciting. time to be living in britain i think at any given point of time india's relationship with the u.k. is an extremely important relationship we have multifaceted we have ties that go back a long time we have a vibrant economic relationship excellent political relationship. we have cultural ties we have all kinds of technologies scientific all kinds of exchanges that happen between our 2 countries which take this relationship forward in addition as you mentioned there is a very large indian diaspora living in the u.k. . almost well it's over 1500000 that. are often of indian origin people that live in the u.k. they have they have achieved very highly as well there are 23 members or you know original members of the house of lords 16 m.p.'s have been elected elected in the last parliament. indian origin people are running successful businesses generating. several thousands of jobs i. you know and contributing and almost lead to thinking about as i say there are proportionately actually people of indian origin who were not doing as well but i'm going to ask you when we interview people politicians senior politicians from india on our show whether they be b. j. p. whether they be from the congress party they talk about british imperialism in india they talk about the idea that there seems to be a snow bush imperial attitude that lingers on in the british establishment still against indians whether they be from the diaspora or from india today the country with a huge ego i i haven't seen those interviews so i i don't know exactly what people think it's for their own constituencies back home and no i wouldn't say that i do since i haven't even heard it i wouldn't know what it is aimed at but i must say that i have during my stay here i have always been deceived with great respect and dignity and always has been a very good relationship or equation with the people that i'm talking to so what do you think that is my experience is a problem of historical understanding i mean if we have to grow our program about on the curriculum here there will be no teaching of the bengal famine and churchill's role in that for instance it's not there in the curriculum here i again you know i think that is something i'm not really an expert off and so i don't know well what is taught. in the history books of school of schools in the u.k. . it's natural i suppose that there should be different ways i mean different ways when the event relationship goes that far back in time it is natural that people on on the 2 sides look at each other sometimes from a different lens but that is not to say that today our relationship is not important to do you know where you have an islam very important 70 years later you know it has been important even 70 years earlier india joined the on the commonwealth almost 70 years ago. what is what is the commonwealth for our international viewers of this to learn people in britain because people when or even know that there's a conference in 2020 in kigali i understand what lies in common with the commonwealth is an association of of $53.00 countries it has a population of over $2000000000.00 g.d.p. of i think over 9 trillion us dollars most of the members of the commonwealth us mall small states and small island states. though. i mean i kind of meant what is the role of it i mean these are basic values and you know we're under the rule from london most of them your astrology is that they are english speaking english speaking countries it is an excellent platform for. gauge mint amongst people who are committed to democracy for instance and development and this is this is you know good forum for engagement within countries who speak english or at least majority speak english and you know follow a similar kind of value system india. has over the last what i think 56 years. if very strong indian technical and economic cooperation program. which has. 14000 short and long term courses for capacity building to the developing countries don't know much about it to the world they have well certainly certain with respect i guess not capacity that is that is what we do in a lot of commonwealth countries a part of that but as far as brics it is concerned in this country very few trade deals have so far been made albeit the british government would say that's because of the strictures of the withdrawal agreement with brussels with any commonwealth countries very few deals. already meeting with the british government about a post breakfast free trade deal with britain. we don't know i haven't met anybody on that as yet but you know post breaks and there are a number of. aspects of our relationship that. we have been discussing and we would need to discuss. let me say this that you care has identified india as a name as an important economic partner post grex it and we look forward to would really gauging with the u.k. authorities u.k. government. on. many shoes that you know that can help to take our relationship forward both our economies our large economies. you know u.k. is what $2.00 i think last year trillion dollars and india was $2.00 i think or 3133 trillion dollars. but using power parity valued at around 11 so there is a lot of compliment that it be in our economies and. we hope to really take our relationship forward i mean has reset there's more poverty arguably in india than in sub-saharan africa in terms of numbers according to statistics having said that . i understand being moved back from india to britain by some companies how does india see the relationship trade relationship with britain. well to start with i i think your question is starting off in one direction and going in another direction so i'm a little bit. so let's let's look at the trade relationship i would trade bilateral trade. goods and services the board is about 25. 1000000000 pounds is over 25000000000 pounds but there is also a very vibrant economic investment that is there from. both countries and to the other this is india buying up britain's companies well there are a number of unions get out a number of indian companies to be one way to be not to be precise there are 8 $142.00 indian companies us but a report that was done last year they have a combined turnover of $48000000000.00 pounds they paid last year 684000000 pounds in corporate tax and they did it to $200.00. 5000 jobs the u.k. to my understanding has 600 u.k. companies in india and they have i think close to 27000000000 pounds of investment but i think we're right here on the even given the power economic power of india how are these negotiations going to be fair given that india can at any point threaten the entire united kingdom with a massive decrease in an actual decrease in g.d.p. because of indian investment and i don't i don't think i'm going into that direction because we haven't even started talking you know about the me cause here india has a strong will so is u.k. u.k. is the p 5 country it is a very strong economic power that is it's a very ok to also your question india you get a relationship is a very valued relationship it is valued by both sides both you and india over 70 and it is the other way around both countries are committed to taking this relationship forward and i'm convinced that we will be able to do so because there are so many complementarities so many commonalities via both committed to democracy and rule of law and we both understand each other's language we speak the language of. apart from our own languages the have similarity of leaders legal structures so i think people find it so i'm i'm convinced that we will be able to take over relationship forward and just finally more broadly as a high commissioner here in london you know that britain has strong views on iran it has strong views on venezuela it has strong views or as i can mention a very india how do you see india's role in terms of. the way britain's he's perceived enemies russia iran venezuela syria. i have always believed and. i have been and even stated be