ah her welcome to the program. i'm adrian finnegan. they are the worst earthquakes to hit turkey and syria and decades. seems of devastation have emerged on both sides of the border with thousands of people, dead rescue teams a working a round the clock to find survivors. humanitarian assistance is essential, particularly in northern syria. but our politics hindering the response. i'll just here as katya lopez, hot ion reports, ah years of conflict and now earthquakes. the challenge of delivering aid to northern syria is now even tougher. i had oh yeah, i knew i learned while you in a way we had grown accustomed to war. but this earthquake happened all of a sudden i wish we were very, very scared. we got frightened with years of conflict, but this was different. just horrific man. i own a gentleman that much of this region includes reveled health areas of badly affected by years of conflict. and separating politics from international aid is difficult it would be quite ironic, ah, if not even counterproductive for us to reach out to a government that has brutalized its people over the course of a dozen years. now. instead we have humanitarian partners on the ground who can provide the type of assistance in the aftermath of these tragic earthquakes. resources are limited and rounds used by the united nations to transport aid from truck. here to syria have been disrupted. and the situation here as handled as being handled by the government. but as we know, the government's capacity is very limited in terms of fir eskew t. as in terms of fir equipments, still, many people are under durable and the government has very little capacity. humanitarian groups are calling for us sanctions to be temporarily left to ease the delivery of aid and encourage countries to help a message echoed by serious government. so even those countries who want to send you many syrian assistance, they cannot use the aeroplane cargo because of the sanctions. syrian president bashar on the son has been accused of withholding aid and services from rebels held areas to punish the opposition fight with a major response needed to cope with such a wide spread disaster. humanitarian groups are calling for politics to be set aside. both at home and abroad. patty ella. pistol again for insight story. ah. let's bring in our guests for today's discussion from ankara were joined by emma cosette, his associate professor at hassan colonial university and from brussels. we have, i said i'd she or who is executive director of babe. nas, syria, that's a non governmental organization that provides grants for development projects in syria and from norman oklahoma. joshua landis, director of the center for middle east studies at the university of angelo home. a gentleman, welcome to you, all of it that start with you. syria. then as we heard says that it should control the delivery of aid into all of syria. it doesn't recognize the non governmental organizations working in the north northwest is syria playing politics with aid her. to, to be honest, a man we are talking about syria, you know, at least in the countries already. if you want it into 3 sections and different powers are controlling each section in the north eastern part, we have the peacock i p k, k p i v y p g, a courtesy blues area. and it, you know, at the center at damascus through, on the apple and the mediterranean area, we have the regime forces. and on the north western part, under the turkish influence we have the opposition forces at a serious elevation government. so in each area they have different difficulties after the earthquake, but the most effective areas are especially under the regime control. and under the salvation side, insulation going in control because the losses concentrate in those 2. those 2 regions. for example, under the northwestern part, under a salvation government, i think the debt to all of the people reached to more than 1280 and on the regime concur on this 1250. so different administrations, different political powers make this creation a little bit more difficult, but this call it a n y may get peg, you pay to new political advances in the region for the unitary structure of the site. and maybe for the future, we will see what the situation is cosmetic. and the 1st thing to be conducted by the international community and united nations should be to focus on the military and 8 in all the regions with and yours and international organizations. all of them i want to region as one of them's, i'm sorry to interrupt you. how can you and do that if, if serious government though insists that all of the 8 to limit to syria has to go through it for 4 door regime park, there might be some difficulties, but i think for the opposition, but it will not be a problem because already there are international organizations, they're working in that regions. and so i think the negotiations should be given. and some i let say where they should be concentrate on coming together and finding solutions because today is not the day for political poverty class. today the humans are a really a new day. they need the basic needs shelter because of the in the conditions or the amana terry. and fooled lord or every kind of thing. and that should be the 1st thing that the all word should concentrate on. that the political clash that demand, i said, does the syrian government, still a pariah and much of the international community. and under u. s. and e u, the sanctions doesn't have any role to play in the distribution of aid to rebel held areas of the country. if it accepts offers of assistance, what measures could or perhaps should be put into place to ensure that that aid reaches its intended recipients? well, if i'm, if i may. thank you for having me. if i may start very quickly by saying, but no matter what the certain government say's that you are and has a mandate to deliver humanitarian aid to the northwest to say yeah, as the cross border resolution was just renewed in january and has a mandate to do that until the end of june. so there is a clear mandate for the us to be able to do that with their own government. and so whatever ones what we really need though, at the moment, is not only equipment and material, but it's actually international rescue teams. i here want to salute egyptian web already sent the 1st international rescue team into jim dennis. and the area is under control of the position, but international rescue teams are needed. it all affected areas for that. there might be a need to coordinate with the certain government. but i think the main after there would be this here in our best questions. and they should be the luck of the international community, not the government in damascus, and through, sorry, i say, international rescue teams can make their way into the little city which are the most affected areas and next year in government control. now the challenge professor, as mentioned, is 4 areas under control of the salvation. so to go back into the particularities over the northwest, sorry, it's not really one area, 2 areas, greater lab that is under control of this, of the salvation government, which is an h d. i sponsored government and the areas under directors control which are controlled by these julian into government from the to the position. so for our direct control, it took us government aid is not really a problem, as we do not have to deal with terrorist organizations for atlanta, that is a challenge. we need it. we need immediate solutions for that because 2 of the largest cities and in the north west of se art and the province mainly highly in those are the 2 most effected as cities and the greater province. they can easily access through the bible, our cross bible, our crossing is the authorized crossing by the us mechanism. so everything is in place for an international response. now remains to be seen how we can allow for international rescue teams to go and and for equipment to be there, as well as making, making sure that the road is in good shape to be as, as, have. now i said that that back crossing is remains closed, doesn't it? to do to the damage to the infrastructure the, the crossings are open. ok, good. the, the, the crossings open just to be the crossings open. there are small logistical challenges on the road from the hub to the border crossing because of the destruction around re handler, which is a bit to the north of the border cross. and it should be fully functional by the end of the day. and it took a government has made bob's dilemma and border crossings agenda for, for your major and 8. so at the moment we have 3 border crossings that are open. one is opperation all which is bubble, how, which is the main un otherwise border crossing. but there are 2 generative border crossings that are fully functional, easily accessible. and these are bub slammer and border crossing. just relentless, 90 percent of people in northern syria were already dependent upon humanitarian aid . before this, quite a natural disaster on this scale could not have hit a more vulnerable population, not as we heard. it's difficult at the moment for a while, not a single room was, was open for aid, but as i said, i just told us, at least now that one crossing is open. time is of the essence, people a dying. what should be done? a by whom, as our fellow humans suffer. surely now is the time to put politics aside, isn't it? it is attained to put politics aside and this may offer a chance for some kind of boost and change your policy. you asked in the beginning of your thing about whether people are playing politics with this. and of course they are, you know, every one of these 3 areas that are controlled by different governments and different regimes are, are playing politics with food in the united states has put very severe sanctions on syria. it's impossible to send money into loved ones through banks. all of the bank and coach ship codes have been blocked. united states controls all of syria's oil and is trying to make sure that no one gets to syria. that means that machines can run and outside is doing the same thing with the rebel controlled areas. he's, he, he wants to control what food gets to the rebels and, and it's the same with the rebels and the a coming to rebel area. so this is, it's time for politics to be put aside. and i think that the international community needs to rush aid in to all 3 of these on plates, particularly the northwest rebel controlled area and assyrian area. because a lot of a lot though. huh. regents have been demonstrated by own my own in laws who live in latter key area. numerous buildings around there's has have collapsed and now and that's true for change throughout the region. so they need aid desperately. a treasure at the u. s. s. has ruled out delivering aid via the syrian government. as we heard of the beginning of the program, us state department spokesman net price said it would be ironic if not even counterproductive for us to reach out to a government that us brutalized its people over the course of a 1000 years now. is that the right attitude given the situation? how will that be? okay, well, how will the us get 8 to the us? she's not going to get hate into this area. you know that they're going to get agents in north, east and west, and that's fine. the point is that the international community america can sit aside on this. but the arab governments, we've seen egypt reach out ccs reached out to the syrian government. the steering government is going to be involved in this one way or the other can through the red cross, the red cross is working within the syrian steering government control part. so as i read question, those are 2 action agencies that can deliver aid. and can, you know if the united states can deliver aid to those agencies, then they don't have to go through the government directly. of course, the covenants involved in delivering trucks and delivering aid. and the military is going and digging people out. the syrian government is not, is, is trying to respond to this. of course, the spotlight is on the government. can it be effective? and syrians are in despair because their government has been so ineffective. the, the national budget of syria this year is about $3000000000.00, which is you know, the reconstruction of syria needs needs tens of billions of dollars and the government is not in any shape way, shape capable of carrying out the aid that needs to be taken out and it needs to be delivered in this area. we'll come back to this point in a few minutes. joshua took. yep. also, of course, badly affected by this quick. it's understandably focused on it's on its own citizens right now, but to what extent does it hold the key to, to access to, to, to northern syria, even though the roads on, on both sides of the border at the moment, a very badly damaged actually it today or we have, and i say, ready, we close connection with deep and temporary administration system. the more rest than the sites are under the turkish implants. so a day or very a, let's say a connected to the touch administration system and they are working in cooperation with them. but just to give an idea, put out audience and diverse kits. 8 scenario in the earthquakes happened in the region only into camp 10 for audiences were effected and the area is about bigger than 100000 square miles, it's got a kilometer, so it's bigger than the fuel ariel iceland. what? forties? hungaria. so like a whole country. so it's white in 1st a day it was very difficult. who picks all the rules and other things, but today most of them are working. i and the rules will be connected and opened, as already mentioned it by our friend from breast since at the gates are working and the toward one. 0, will be open asian lighting till the end of today is all the 8 system will properly bureau also. but in some regions we have seen, for example, and you've been out of that at b k. k is also ignoring this extraordinary restoration and a tech to the border to pass a bite malta ranch rocket systems. so the terrorist organizations are using also nist a bet conditions as an opportunity for the attack. so these should be an apparent it as well and taken on the control of course, because the security forces already concentrated on duke rescue efforts. so this is difficult, but it's working, but so the international community can on something i don't have it yet and work. i'm sorry to interrupt you say that that these areas should be taken under control by whom and of course the security port to security forces in the region. but around the international rescue attempts to reach to the area, the actual security parcels can return to their actual works and they can concentrate on the security as well. because a now the military and other security forces are concentrated on research on rescue . so to terry scott, innovations are using this as an opportunity to threatened it, a current security situation also to deteriorate it. so that's why i think more research on rescue teams and other humanitarian. 8 material suit breached to the point as security forces that dan should remain the security and maintained in security as val comedy is you say that that, that these various groups are taking advantage of the situation for the rodents. to what extent will the syrian government try to do the same and take advantage of the situation for its own ends? for sure that debt is all to political parties. it may try to use it about it is not very easy as well because a day already themselves have a huge problems in their own area as well. and so i don't think that they will try to use this as an opportunity to attack it. la region and other places, but of course it's a kind of as tentative or risk. it should be mitigated or, or some precautions should be taken. an intent on eastern international community. it should focus on should not ignore as well as had what effect with it, with the international sanctions on syria having people in the north west of the country before the disaster. so an international sanctions. i and i have no impact on emergency response and humanitarian aid a reaching deductions as sort of as i said, 90 percent of people in northern syria were all ready dependent upon humanitarian aid before the earthquake. so that so the sanctions must have been having some impact upon what i was getting. i was attention have directed as professor professor lumber said on, on, ravages on financial transfers. and to enter the country because of the banking of the fact that we only last to use the wireless system which is not capable and very difficult, very difficult and convoluted juice. so the big impact is unremitting on the ability of peer to peer financial distributions, etc. so what financial international action but doing are basically they're increasing the costs of the military and responds, however, they're not preventing it. and i absolutely agree with that by the certain government is absolutely inefficient, but not only inefficient. i would say also extremely corrupt and criminal. and the way the approach and all disasters that i've, that i've, you know, affect the area and also how they're approaching the earthquake. so that therefore we need international rescue team. we cannot leave this to the of the different defacto authorities on the ground. we absolutely need an international board, the initial mckenzie wright, i'm international rescue teams. i to be on the ground in all areas of start. i wanted to ask you, who will coordinate the response to, to what extent will the reluctance of international access to deal with serious government and support non governmental organizations directly lead to a botched response. therefore, we need to create a coordination mechanism. how to do that. there are, there are different ways one point was the un, it was the un which are that was doing that for the nation. but unfortunately, as i mentioned that doug has been completely heads and therefore we cannot rely on on the attempt to be able to, to coordinate the aid for the, for the northwest or the country. now syria has appealed to the civil. so the protection mechanism within the cherokee hasn't been for the same protection mechanism. so the eco d, g eco can lead us if there is a political will within the european union to basically lead the coordination effort. the entry of international rescue has already people on the ground in damascus. and therefore, they can, they can, you know, take big, take the lead on that, and they're trustworthy from, from the different, you know, political powers and the different in the different areas of. otherwise, it can be left to a coordination mechanism among syria jewels. and that has happened before when there were, you know, forces displacement. but mason goes into it left. for example, there was a coordination mechanism that was created for shelter to, to, to accept people are such a difference. and so there is a previous question where there has been the initial mechanism that worked between the se in our best western came from one side and government controlled area and other, and joe's operating of the country. joshua, for years, the international community has furnished its policies towards syria. to what extent could this tragedy do you think the capitalist now for change for the world to take it a different approach to syria? it is time to change the we've seen in the arab world, the u. e. parade. now egypt has stepped forward. there's jordan has normalized relations with damascus and trying to influence the situation in syria. and i think sad ravia has mentioned it is talked about, it's eager to find some modest brandy with outside. they want political. they want some political concessions from damascus 1st. but this is a moment when i think one needs to look at the sanctions regime, which has been extremely tough on syria and, and question whether it's working because it has failed. it hasn't changed the political architecture and syria one iota, but it has starved people. it has hurt the most vulnerable that the women and children, mostly 90 percent of syrians are living under the poverty line. there's almost no electricity. there's no fuel. and the government has the government and the steering economy have come to a standstill. and this, this is not a way to try to revive the syrian syria future of syria and certain people in this time of great need. so i think it is a time for the international community to revise its policies, which just have not been working or for syria, desperately. the people of syria desperately need the sanction lifted, syria itself wants to be reintegrated into the international community. now is the time you're saying to bring syria in from the coal, but, but is the syrian government to be trusted when it tried to take advantage of the disaster for its own. and of course, it's going to take advantage. you know, everybody is taking advantage of this in one way or the other. and an upside is going to try to take advantage of this in order to mom lives relations. that's what he's reached out to egypt. egypt reached out to him. he's in the process of trying to normalize relations with turkey. of course, it's gonna be extremely difficult because of the enclave in the north. and turkey has been the traditional defender of the arab insurgency and arab obligation groups . so this is a difficult path ahead. but there really is no target. the international community has spent the last 11 years trying to destroy side and the syrian harmony and bring about political change. it failed. it gave up, we saw the rise of isis, that rosemont tied up in syria and it, it, it got spooked by the syrian opposition. and it left aside in place that decision made by the international community here. and therefore, they can't just star the syrian people forever. the king of jordan also reached out to, to president. i started very quickly, joshua on the presence of, of russia and iran in syria where they fit into this briefly. we've got about a minute left. the russian who run. i've been waiting back there a to me, she's one of those major problems. iran just almost double the price of oil sales to serious not going to subsidize anymore. so this, this is, it makes it very difficult to help us out for the west to step in. because of course, we're fighting this war in ukraine, and our enemies are russia and iran. so if we can heard syria, many people will say, let's do it. because it hurt russia any character, ron, and turn syria angel quagmire from those 2 countries. and unfortunately, that's the kind of thinking that has prevailed so far. and perhaps it's time that we change that thinking for the syrians. now that we see the suffering, gentlemen there, we must end the discussion. many thanks indeed to all of you, our casa, i said aloud she and joshua lantus. and thank you for watching. don't forget, you can see the program again at any time just by going to the web site or i'll just, you know, dot com for further discussion. join us on our facebook page that's at facebook dot com, forward slash ages inside story. and of course, the conversation continues twitter handle at ha, inside story for me, a free and for the whole team here. and so thanks for being with us for the me. ah, this is one of the most sounding technological revolutions in all of history, make our planner great. the we have to meet you to emission target liquid casa lated. to mention the need to be mind to where people are just talking about wind and solar. is it that's going to solve the problem? it won't the world of business and commer, he's driving energy change each the promise of clean energy and illusion. the top side of green energy on al jazeera, tough times, the man tough question is, what exactly are you asking for you? what the troops on the ground, the rigorous debate we challenge conventional wisdom racism is some deeply entrenched in the country that is identified with america. so when you challenge racism, it looks as if you're challenging of merit and demand the truth. there is no serious discussion about this because it goes to the very root of who we are up front with me, mark lamb on hill on al jazeera, the latest news as it breaks, forces are about a kilometer in that direction. you are you in military is good now we detailed coverage where is world has the palestinian of calling me on the verge of collapse for a decade from around the world. this protest thought expanded too broad a social movement not just again increasing the age of retirement but also the continuing cost of living crisis. ah matheson and don't have the headlines on all the 0. the death toll following mondays, earthquakes into care and syria has risen to more than 17000 hope of finding more survivors under the bubble is beginning to fade. the u. s. a sent crews that specialize in urban.
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