about what's been happening with the documentary evidence, and really these photos and videos are rich sources of data. do you think the inability to work as a journalist in many parts of the world is why open—source techniques have taken off in the last ten years? journalists can't just wander around china or wander around myanmar. i think this work is at its strongest when it's multidisciplinary, people that are coming at this from different angles, whether you're a reporter, investigator, scientist, geospatial analyst, etc. we ultimately put together something called the berkeley protocol on digital open source investigations to help standardise some of the terminology and understandings of how you do it. what ben was talking about was really verifying this data, given the ephemerality of it, given how it can be easily manipulated or miscontextualized. i think, with covid in particular, there was a recognition that it was even harder to get on the ground, notjust the security