but we know it's gone because here are people writing about it as if it's in the past. and the same thing happens at the end of the handmaid's tale... yes. now, that... when the reader realises... yes. ..that the narrative that has played out is being discussed at a symposium sometime in the future. so you come to the same conclusion, that the regime... well, i... ..has fallen. i mean, that's my model. and that's how you deal with knowledge that you can't put in the main narrative. the handmaid's tale became, in effect, your generation's 1984. well, maybe, sort of... but, you know, at the time, it wasn't considered very plausible... hmm. ..by many. so, in 1985, it was not seen as a real possibility. that's interesting — you wrote it in 1984. i did. isn't that corny? not only that, i was writing it in west berlin, surrounded by the wall. living in west berlin, you were, i presume, very aware of what was happening on the other side of that wall. yes. yes, they made sonic booms