but he doesn't have a joseph galifano. >> pat sarnstein who has gone every single thing they've done and figured out cost benefit analysis. for the first time had a really serious cost benefit analysis of everything they are doing. you get the impression from this president he really does like the details of governing. he's been a very hands on with foreign policy. >> you tell me the president has been hands on with health care and let this roll out. 2 million people have lost their health care policy and you say he's done it well? >> he's done it terribly. i say name another instance. i've been all day talking to techies about my own web site. they have language i don't even understand. this is incredibly complicated thing to do. i agree with you. there's no excuse for the way it's been run out. but i also don't agree with you with the immense complexity of what they're trying to do and