that is what's going to beat trump. >> kirsten, when you look at the democratic candidates, this stage, do any of them know exactly how to run against president trump? obviously a lot of republicans thought they knew how to run against him and none of them did. >> yeah, well, there are different schools of thought, right? if you're a bernie or elizabeth warren, you're basically saying, we need to get rid of trump, but we also need to radically change our economy. we need to change our health care system. we need to have a lot of big changes. if you're looking at more of a joe biden approach, he's sort of saying let's just go back to normal. let's go back to the way it was. and i don't think the decision has really been made in the democratic party -- >> i agree with that. >> -- which way is the best way to approach it. >> howard dean, governor dean, kirsten powers, thank you very much. still to come tonight, california governor gavin newsom talks about how he's undercut president trump's attempt to cut