opposed to. so say something like contraception. if the church is opposed to the use of condoms and contraception, people say, well, they're against science. but there's a difference. you can be against what science would be telling everyone to do and still know the scientific research says something that's true. so i just think that that distinction is important. i think the church, yeah, can come a long way in certain areas. and it will continue to do so. the church evolves, albeit more slowly than perhaps the scientific community. and that's always been known the church is kind of dragging its feet to catch up at times. but i think slowly you'll see kind of more of a melding together than we may think. >> really a dispute when it comes to condoms and aids, really? >> not to dispute -- the dispute the kacatholic church would tea condoms is not the answer, abstinence is more effective. condoms can break, they can be used incorrectly.