him. tilikum was the one we trusted. we never were concerned about tilikum. the issue really was we stored these whales at night in what we called a module. which was 20 feet across and probably 30 feet deep. as a safety precaution because we were worried about people cutting the net and letting them go and the lights were all turned out. so there is no stimulation, just in a dark metal 20 foot by 30 foot pool for 2/3 of their life. >> when we first started, they were quite small and quite young, so they fit in there quite nicely, but they were immobile for the most part. >> it didn't feel good. it just didn't. and it -- it was just wrong. >> we started having difficulty getting them all into this one small steel box, to be honest. that's what it was. it was a floating steel box. >> that's where food deprivation would come in. we would hold back food and they